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Eminem vs Big Pun


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#1 Taktical

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 02:28 AM

2 of my favorite emcees will always be Big Pun and Eminem...

But now I ask you...

Who do you think is (or was?) the better lyricist?

or does it even matter? :hmm:

I only ask because so many hold Eminem up as the greatest rapper ever.... but I honestly believe Big Pun was way beyond Em's ability



VS.

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#2 Matt Cassel

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 03:44 AM

Sage Francis>both of them
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#3 StarF

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 04:44 AM

Sage Francis>both of them


Well while I may agree with you, you didn't really answer the question, which wasn't "Who is your favorite lyricist," but "Who is better in comparison between Eminem and Big Pun?"

Personally I can't really give a valid opinion on the question, haven't listened to either enough in depth.
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#4 cowtzu

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 05:36 AM

Eminem..... greatest rapper ever? I seriously want to punch somebody in the face right now.
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#5 Taktical

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 10:33 AM

Eminem..... greatest rapper ever? I seriously want to punch somebody in the face right now.


:lol: I never said I thought he was... in fact, I don't even believe it's possible to pick the greatest. But if you ask around, a good portion of the time you'll find Eminem at the top of everyone's list

I only posted this because there's so many underrated rappers out there who can easily blow away any of the top 5 rated lyricists... ESPECIALLY when people's top 5 include Drake, Lil Wayne, Jay-Z, or Kanye. But don't get mad at me mayne, this is just the way it's been built; Their will always be a "best" in every genre/area of music.
Lady Gaga is the greatest she-man entertainer ever. Eminem is the greatest rapper ever. Taylor Swift is the greatest singer ever... the list can go on and on... but who really wants it to?
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#6 Wyr

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 10:34 AM

I like Eminem('s latest album and a select few previous singles) a lot but just from hearing that Big Pun video (never had experience of him prior, DLing discog now) I gotta say I like Big Pun way more.
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#7 BKL

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:00 AM

eminem best rapper ever yeah right kids seriously...maybe hes the best WHITE MAINSTREAM RAPPER....his only competition being asher roth (ROFL IF U CONSIDER HIM A RAPPER) but damn thats real talent hes real good, eminem wouldnt be shit without dre, neither would 50, neither would g unit, neither would all these scrub ass bitches, u would be stuck with lil wayne...and lil jon, and they suck for sure, srsly quit dick riding eminem, there are NO good mainstream artists, in rap, rock, or anything, mainstream=lack of control over your music=lack of creativity=garbage, some white guy in a suit with a briefcase gonna tell u he dont like what ur writin cause it aint gonna sell to the masses, and remember you signed to his label so you are his bitch!

now i dont hate mainstream cause of what goes on behind the scenes (thats pretty gay regardless), i just hate it cause it all sounds like reguritated horse shit being put through a blender aimed at my ears
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#8 Taktical

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:07 AM

eminem wouldnt be shit without dre


Impossible to say. Infinite could've gone unnoticed if it weren't for Dre picking up on it, but who's to say he wouldn't have found his fame at some point down the line. Just saying he'd be nothing without Dre is ridiculous at best

srsly quit dick riding eminem


Who said I was?? or was this not aimed at me? If it wasn't, then it would make more sense. If it was aimed at me, scroll back to the top and reread, then repost to let me know how I was :wink:
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#9 bazuukajoe

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 12:49 PM

Eminem..... greatest rapper ever? I seriously want to punch somebody in the face right now.


Sage Francis..... Better than Em and Pun? I seriously want to punch somebody in the face right now.

there are NO good mainstream artists, in rap, rock, or anything, mainstream=lack of control over your music=lack of creativity=garbage


This statement sounds really ignorant. Especially is regards to Eminem. News flash homey, at one point nearly every emcee was underground. Once a great underground artist gets signed he automatically becomes garbage? Fuck outta here. Have you even heard Infinite? Proves Eminem was a great emcee way before Dre. And do you even know what goes on "behind the scenes" of record labels? What, have you been said before?

some white guy in a suit with a briefcase gonna tell u he dont like what ur writin cause it aint gonna sell to the masses, and remember you signed to his label so you are his bitch


So, all record execs are white now? Yet another ignorant statement. You just keep losing credibility.

now i dont hate mainstream cause of what goes on behind the scenes (thats pretty gay regardless), i just hate it cause it all sounds like reguritated horse shit being put through a blender aimed at my ears


So how is Eminem spitting "regurgitated bullshit?" How many emcees in the game right now rap about what he has rapped about? I suppose rapping about "homosexual and vicodin" was just part of his grand scheme to sell more records. And I suppose the Slim Shady horrorcore influenced shit was just a ploy to sell more records too (because acts like ICP are soooo popular *sarcasm*). You sound like a tool right now bro.
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#10 cowtzu

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 01:06 PM

@joe

I didn't bring Sage into this at all. He's not the best rapper, doesn't have incredible flow. But I do like his wordplay, lots of interesting metaphors.

Grestest emcee ever = Girthy B
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#11 The Dingo

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 01:18 PM

I honestly have to say through listening and comparing that I liked Eminem more. But that's probably because I'm more used to him. But hey don't get me wrong. Big Pun wasn't bad. He was actually pretty ill.

there are NO good mainstream artists, in rap, rock, or anything, mainstream=lack of control over your music=lack of creativity=garbage

This statement sounds really ignorant. Especially is regards to Eminem. News flash homey, at one point nearly every emcee was underground. Once a great underground artist gets signed he automatically becomes garbage? Fuck outta here. Have you even heard Infinite? Proves Eminem was a great emcee way before Dre. And do you even know what goes on "behind the scenes" of record labels? What, have you been said before?


Well put. Have to say I agree.
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#12 BKL

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 01:29 PM

ummmm yes, for the most part underground rappers are better and in complete control of their music and what happens to it but once they sign to a label, the label can go 'hey eminem you cant say that shit anymore please change all your lyrics to make it family friendly' and they have to do it, my point is that being an independent artist is the best way to go unless you are just 'in it for the money' and seriously just face it, eminem wouldnt have become half as famous as he is dissing celebs and being a 'funny guy' if it wasnt for dre's production. eminem tried this gay ass 'relapse' shit and rapped in all these gay ass accents and it was pretty laughable cause it was so bad now hes trying to go back to an old style that worked. the industry changes you, eminem was once an honest underground mc, but his stylings quickly changed after gaining fame and notoriety and being signed to a major label. so in a way yes it is regurgitated horse shit because if something works, than they change and the new shit flops, they go back to what worked before.

and as far as sage francis being the best, im a huge fan of sage francis he puts on awesome live sets. ive been to 5 of them and all of them were phenomenal, but hes not the best rapper on earth, its personal opinion honestly. and no ercassam i wasnt insulting you, your not being a dick rider lol..but too many people give eminem the 'greatest rapper of all time' title because they are fucking ignorant it would be 'eminem is my favorite rapper of all time' because since when is a beat made and there is only one proper way to 'flow' on it and only one proper topic for the 'subject matter' in the lyrics...there isnt so there is no greatest rapper. just because eminem is the most popular white mc does not make him the best. thats like saying will ferrel is the best white actor cause hes popular as hell, well i got news for you will ferrel is not the best actor (i hope will ferrel dies tbh), hes your favorite actor.

eminem is still a decent mc at heart, but im sure if he signed indie he would still be popular. but he would probably be doing his own thing and sounding completely different.

another good example is the wu tang clan, now all members of the wu are astounding mc's and some of the best in the game, but if they never came together and pushed their shit out there they probably wouldnt have made it as far as they have today. so members of wu tang would probably not have been as popular as they are now without rza. just like eminem wouldnt be as popular as he is without dre. people give these people too much credit, if anything give dre the credit for being one of the best beatsmiths in the game

hope that clears things up. and bazuuka joe if your accusing me of being racist, for the record im a white nerd, and when i said that white guys in suits with briefcases line i was kind of making fun of the racial card the black rappers always like to play cause ive heard some ignorant black rappers compare being signed to a record label with slavery, dont remember who. it was years ago but it was ignorant and pissed me off, ya its true you lose alot of control of your shit but its not because your black, it happened to eminem, and his record exec was black and you dont hear eminem bitchin WAHWAH THESE BLACK RECORD EXECS MAKIN ME DO THIS N THAT CAUSE IM WHITE, so just hope you werent accusing me of being racist agaisnt my own race
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#13 BKL

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 01:40 PM

Also the horrorcore shit eminem did really has no place in mainstream all it did was force him to change his style because stupid parents bought the eminem cd for their kids and when they listened to it were outraged and tried to file lawsuits and start all kinds of bullshit drama, people apparently dont pay attention to the 'parental advisory' stickers on albums so its really their own fault. an artist shouldnt have to 'change' because a label says so because the parents of some 10 year olds are flipping out, im sure thats not all the reason for it but to my knowledge is one of the biggest reasons eminem changed his style completely
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#14 cowtzu

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 01:50 PM

Uh, ok. Let's see. First of all, having Dre's hand in your production is not some white guy in a suit. Def Jam, Death Row, all the labels that handled the biggest names in rap, were not huge corporate entities like EMI. Diddy, yes, likes to insert himself into everyone's music he has a hand in, and is a bit controlling. But no, it's not really like artists like Avril Lavigne who are told what style of music to make, how to dress, how to manage their image.

And, as far as signing to a major = instantly selling out... I don't get that. Signing to a label doesn't mean you're only "in it for the money." How many of nerdcore's finest hold down regular 9-5's and sporadically release music because they also have to support themselves and their families? If Beefy was on a major label, he'd have a lot more time to do what he loves because he's making a living off of it, better access to studio professionals, mixing, instrumentation, the ability to procure artists obligated to other labels to collaborate with... I don't see how it's such a bad thing or how the art suffers. Doors are opened. People always say bands sold out, but professional production really crafts a band's sound, a producer has much more to do with a band's sound than most people know (look at Danger Mouse). If you have access to more instruments, higher quality recording equipment, vocal coaches, etc, etc, yes, your sound is going to change. A punk band for instance, with something other than an old Gibson held together with duct tape, might see the value in achieving certain sounds, rather than just playing as fast as they can.

TL;DR, your opinion is stupid and you know nothing of music, quit riding your own dick.
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#15 Wattsworth

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 01:52 PM

but once they sign to a label, the label can go 'hey eminem you cant say that shit anymore please change all your lyrics to make it family friendly'

Eminem>FamilyFriendly>LOL


and as far as sage francis being the best, im a huge fan of sage francis he puts on awesome live sets. ive been to 5 of them and all of them were phenomenal, but hes not the best rapper on earth, its personal opinion honestly.


Then stop talking shit. Or better yet, stop talking.

eminem is still a decent mc at heart, but im sure if he signed indie he would still be popular. but he would probably be doing his own thing and sounding completely different.


If the verses from Infinite or whatever at the beginning of the Em video are an indication of what he would sound like if he was indie, then THANK FUCKING GOD he made HIS OWN RECORD LABEL because Jesus that was some shit rapping and shit voice.

another good example is the wu tang clan, now all members of the wu are astounding mc's and some of the best in the game, but if they never came together and pushed their shit out there they probably wouldnt have made it as far as they have today. so members of wu tang would probably not have been as popular as they are now without rza. just like eminem wouldnt be as popular as he is without dre. people give these people too much credit, if anything give dre the credit for being one of the best beatsmiths in the game


Who the fuck is RZA? I got into Wu-Tang cuz Method Man is a member and Blackout! and Blackout!2 were badass. I still haven't gotten around to listening to the Wu-Tang album yet but I'm just saying, I for one decided to give them a try because of Meth and Red.

Eh. Beats are a matter of opinion. But yeah Dre is God. In the radio edit "My Name Is" they switched the line "God sent me to piss the world off" to "Dre sent me to piss the world off." so yeah Dre=God

hope that clears things up. and bazuuka joe if your accusing me of being racist, for the record im a white nerd, and when i said that white guys in suits with briefcases line i was kind of making fun of the racial card the black rappers always like to play cause ive heard some ignorant black rappers compare being signed to a record label with slavery, dont remember who. it was years ago but it was ignorant and pissed me off, ya its true you lose alot of control of your shit but its not because your black, it happened to eminem, and his record exec was black and you dont hear eminem bitchin WAHWAH THESE BLACK RECORD EXECS MAKIN ME DO THIS N THAT CAUSE IM WHITE, so just hope you werent accusing me of being racist agaisnt my own race


oh my god. From now on I'm just going to assume everyone in the world is a fucking grey blob because i'm so sick of everyone assuming everything is racist holy fuck.
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#16 Wattsworth

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 01:54 PM

Uh, ok. Let's see. First of all, having Dre's hand in your production is not some white guy in a suit. Def Jam, Death Row, all the labels that handled the biggest names in rap, were not huge corporate entities like EMI. Diddy, yes, likes to insert himself into everyone's music he has a hand in, and is a bit controlling. But no, it's not really like artists like Avril Lavigne who are told what style of music to make, how to dress, how to manage their image.

And, as far as signing to a major = instantly selling out... I don't get that. Signing to a label doesn't mean you're only "in it for the money." How many of nerdcore's finest hold down regular 9-5's and sporadically release music because they also have to support themselves and their families? If Beefy was on a major label, he'd have a lot more time to do what he loves because he's making a living off of it, better access to studio professionals, mixing, instrumentation, the ability to procure artists obligated to other labels to collaborate with... I don't see how it's such a bad thing or how the art suffers. Doors are opened. People always say bands sold out, but professional production really crafts a band's sound, a producer has much more to do with a band's sound than most people know (look at Danger Mouse). If you have access to more instruments, higher quality recording equipment, vocal coaches, etc, etc, yes, your sound is going to change. A punk band for instance, with something other than an old Gibson held together with duct tape, might see the value in achieving certain sounds, rather than just playing as fast as they can.

TL;DR, your opinion is stupid and you know nothing of music, quit riding your own dick.


i love u
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#17 BKL

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 02:00 PM

well opinions are opinions, you dont like mine i dont like yours. wanna have a gangsta ass fight in the streets to settle it?

btw redman isnt in wu tang, and yeah its sad cause the only person people know from wu is method man cause he did movies and other shit.

maybe 'radio friendly' wouldve been a better choice of words but oh well once again i dont really care if you dislike my opinions and im sure you dont care that i dislike yours, so why you arguing?
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#18 BKL

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 02:05 PM

Uh, ok. Let's see. First of all, having Dre's hand in your production is not some white guy in a suit. Def Jam, Death Row, all the labels that handled the biggest names in rap, were not huge corporate entities like EMI. Diddy, yes, likes to insert himself into everyone's music he has a hand in, and is a bit controlling. But no, it's not really like artists like Avril Lavigne who are told what style of music to make, how to dress, how to manage their image.

And, as far as signing to a major = instantly selling out... I don't get that. Signing to a label doesn't mean you're only "in it for the money." How many of nerdcore's finest hold down regular 9-5's and sporadically release music because they also have to support themselves and their families? If Beefy was on a major label, he'd have a lot more time to do what he loves because he's making a living off of it, better access to studio professionals, mixing, instrumentation, the ability to procure artists obligated to other labels to collaborate with... I don't see how it's such a bad thing or how the art suffers. Doors are opened. People always say bands sold out, but professional production really crafts a band's sound, a producer has much more to do with a band's sound than most people know (look at Danger Mouse). If you have access to more instruments, higher quality recording equipment, vocal coaches, etc, etc, yes, your sound is going to change. A punk band for instance, with something other than an old Gibson held together with duct tape, might see the value in achieving certain sounds, rather than just playing as fast as they can.

TL;DR, your opinion is stupid and you know nothing of music, quit riding your own dick.



im not talking about old school ass shit like death row, but yes that is true, however nowadays the industry is much different you get access to better quality but the possibility of having your shit fucked with by people not involved in your band is a really lame ass concept. and p diddy is a ******
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#19 Wattsworth

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 02:07 PM

well opinions are opinions, you dont like mine i dont like yours. wanna have a gangsta ass fight in the streets to settle it?


Fuck yeah man i will cry like a little girl until you get to awkward to do shit and then blam kick you in the balls.

btw redman isnt in wu tang


I knew that already


and yeah its sad cause the only person people know from wu is method man cause he did movies and other shit.


How High was the shit. and does it really matter why i decided to dl the wu tang album? all that matters is that i'm listening to it right?

maybe 'radio friendly' wouldve been a better choice of words


if his songs were radio friendly he wouldn't need to edit them but he does.


but oh well once again i dont really care if you dislike my opinions


then why you talking?
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#20 BKL

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 02:15 PM

well as long as you dl'd them it doesnt matter how you heard about it really i guess. im just surprised that people on rhymetorrents didnt hear about them when they first formed in the early 90s but know about tupac and biggie and shit. wu tang is one of the biggest old school names in hip hop. im just going to be a complete asshole and assume you either got into hip hop in the last 5-6 years or just were too young when that shit came out
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cop COCKSOCKET 3, the most epic album in existense! featuring BKL, MC Wreckshin, BALLS OF STEEL, and Grandmaster Flac! https://dl.dropbox.c...8375/CS3-TP.rar

[/SOUNDCLOUDURL]https://soundcloud.c...mentia-immortal[/SOUNDCLOUDURL] My Blackened Death metal band LVL? Death